Geo Coding Question

[sheila]

I have read the manual and looked at the questions about geo coding. Reunion's geo coding is locating the "PLACE", however my geo coding entries goes directly to the plot in the cemetery.

It appears that Reunion will not let us enter exact geo coding to the plot if we have several people in a large cemetery. Example Aunt Tilly is on the south part of the cemetery and Aunt Jane is on the north side. Is this correct?

The only way I can see around this is signing into Google Maps and have individual entries. I feel this is not a good solution. Please tell me we can enter exact coordinates for each individual!! and I don't know how to do this.

I feel this is a very important detail missed or I don't know how to do it. Example: I have two cemeteries where I documented over the years where the stones were located. This last year several went missing or broken and now people cannot tell where they were.... or even if they were there.

Please consider one more alternate way to enter geo coding.

[theKiwi]

Re: Geo Coding Question

It appears that Reunion will not let us enter exact geo coding to the plot if we have several people in a large cemetery. Example Aunt Tilly is on the south part of the cemetery and Aunt Jane is on the north side. Is this correct?

You can enter (paste) coordinates into the "Geo" box if you know them exactly from some other means. Then click on any other place in the list to get them saved by Reunion.

Note for this to work in your example above, each burial would have to be a separate entry in the Places list.

Roger

[sheila]

Re: Geo Coding Question

You can enter (paste) coordinates into the "Geo" box if you know them exactly from some other means. Then click on any other place in the list to get them saved by Reunion.

Note for this to work in your example above, each burial would have to be a separate entry in the Places list.

Roger

Thank you, Roger. Yes, you are correct, you can enter the geo code, but I can't figure out how to have multiple entries that are different for the same cemetery. I would like to see that option. I suppose others don't see the need for that, but I do. More and more cemeteries are being neglected or plowed under so I would like the option to enter exact entry for each grave (even tho GPS can be off several feet). I never saw a need for this until it happened to our family. Again, thanks.

Thanks again.

[theKiwi]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Thank you, Roger. Yes, you are correct, you can enter the geo code, but I can't figure out how to have multiple entries that are different for the same cemetery. I would like to see that option. I suppose others don't see the need for that, but I do. More and more cemeteries are being neglected or plowed under so I would like the option to enter exact entry for each grave (even tho GPS can be off several feet). I never saw a need for this until it happened to our family. Again, thanks.

Thanks again.

I don't see how to achieve what you're wanting without making it two separate places - so


Row B, Section 4, Some Cemetery, Some Place, Some County, Some State, Somewhere
Row A, Section 6, Some Cemetery, Some Place, Some County, Some State, Somewhere

could each have their own GeoCodes, but

Some Cemetery, Some Place, Some County, Some State, Some Country

can only have a single geocode.

The only other option would be to use the generic place name, and put the GeoCodes into the Memo of the Burial Event where they will be a meaningless string that can't be mapped by Reunion.

Roger

[Allsop]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Hi Sheila,
I read your posting with interest as I feel the mapping facility in Reunion 10 is quite simply brilliant although it is always nice to have improvements! (See my previous post on this). Your idea of mapping gravestones is I think very good but I wonder if Reunion really is the best way of doing it-I think we need to remember that Reunion is not primarily a mapping tool but a really rather good genealogical database. I have struggled with this myself as I would like to map events for multiple people on a large scale, eg. a map of the UK or even the World, rather than a very small scale like a cemetery as you do. There are better mapping tools especially for great detail but they are rather expensive up to a

[sheila]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Hi Sheila,

As far as producing a very detailed map, which a cemetery would be, I wonder if it would be best to go low-tech? I tried in the Reunion map to zoom in far enough to get sight of individual graves but it could not get anywhere near enough for this. So how about going down the road of getting hold of a map of the cemetery concerned and plotting the relevant graves by hand? I know that sounds daft in today's high-tech world but think how interesting a document you would have produced, and something everyone interested can look and study without a computer, after all the British National Archives, (and others) is full of hand produced documents that will probably outlast the high-tech storage methods that we have today!

A very interesting thread this.

Yes, I am finding this interesting also. I don't know what I was expecting from Reunion in regards of geo coding but I will have to admit I was disappointed when I found out I couldn't do what I wanted! Lol. And you may be right in that I am asking a genealogy program to do too much. Europe and England seem to preserve their cemeteries where U.S. soon forget them....especially the small country ones. In many states the cemeteries can be plowed under after the last person buried is 100 years. As I mentioned this varies by state laws.

Thanks to everyone who answered me on this subject. If I ever find a satisfactory solution I will be glad to post it. For now I'll find a place to store those geo codes!

[Bill Curry]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Hi all,
An interesting discussion -
Actual geocoding of each grave would be very interesting and is a project for our historical cemeteries I was thinking of undertaking. One could add the geo code to the Notes beside the Burial, and still have the cemetery as a Place, but I agree, to be able to pinpoint each person would be even better. I have used GPSr (receivers) for over a dozen years, and can tell you that "a few feet" would be very accurate indeed. Normally a 10 meter reading (30 or so feet) is considered good, and 3 meters (10 feet) is considered highly accurate.
I have just placed our cemeteries on Wikimap (www.oldstones.ca/founders - and look under any of the three cemeteries to see our link and the mapping), but would like to add the actual grave location to each resident. These folks are all in my Reunion db, as I am related to most of them! Have to think through how to best achieve this.
Thanks for the thread,
Bill

[sheila]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Hi all,
An interesting discussion -
Actual geocoding of each grave would be very interesting and is a project for our historical cemeteries I was thinking of undertaking. One could add the geo code to the Notes beside the Burial, and still have the cemetery as a Place, but I agree, to be able to pinpoint each person would be even better.
Bill

Bill,
I looked at your site and you are certainly doing a wonderful job documenting your historical cemeteries and I can see where it would be very beneficial for individual geo coding. That is exactly what I am talking about. I have two old cemeteries that probably won't be there in the next 10 years... or maybe sooner.

I am hoping that possibly our fine Reunion programmers will re-think and help us out. I would be satisfied with just a field so we can enter the geo codes and then say "get map". I am also hoping that when the Apple mapping is available that they will consider using the Apple mapping also.

Good luck on your project.

[Allsop]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Hi Sheila,
I have just found a cheap mapping app for the Mac called Magic Maps which might be worth having a look at but havn't had time to explore it yet.

I was very interested to learn that in the USA they often plough under cemeteries after 100 years, that seems alien to me here in the UK and not a god thing to do, but it makes it even more important I think to map existing cemeteries. Have you seen the Gravestone Photographic Resource at http://www.gravestonephotos.com/ which is developing a photographic database of gravestones? There is a USA section but not much in it at the moment.

Again thanks for this thread.

[sheila]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Hi Sheila,
I have just found a cheap mapping app for the Mac called Magic Maps which might be worth having a look at but havn't had time to explore it yet.

I was very interested to learn that in the USA they often plough under cemeteries after 100 years, that seems alien to me here in the UK and not a god thing to do, but it makes it even more important I think to map existing cemeteries. Have you seen the Gravestone Photographic Resource at http://www.gravestonephotos.com/ which is developing a photographic database of gravestones? There is a USA section but not much in it at the moment.

Again thanks for this thread.

Hey, this mapping program may be interesting; think I'll download the trial.

To clarify, all states in the US have different laws. This gives the farmers permission if they own the land. What you see mostly is that the cemeteries are left alone and they get so overgrown people don't even know they are there.... especially the younger generations.

[John M. Leggett]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Hey, this mapping program may be interesting; think I'll download the trial.

To clarify, all states in the US have different laws. This gives the farmers permission if they own the land. What you see mostly is that the cemeteries are left alone and they get so overgrown people don't even know they are there.... especially the younger generations.

I understand that in east Texas the paper companies were carelessly logging around cemeteries so now there is a law that prohibits logging within 100 feet of a cemetery. However a number of my relatives were buried years ago in the Doughty Cemetery in Polk County and when I went looking for it, I couldn't find it. Later I was told that a home was built where it had been and the owner had simply bulldozed the entire cemetery into a nearby ravine. It turns out that no one could do anything about it because he was a very influential person--in fact, he was the Sheriff.

[sheila]

Re: Geo Coding Question

I understand that in east Texas the paper companies were carelessly logging around cemeteries so now there is a law that prohibits logging within 100 feet of a cemetery. However a number of my relatives were buried years ago in the Doughty Cemetery in Polk County and when I went looking for it, I couldn't find it. Later I was told that a home was built where it had been and the owner had simply bulldozed the entire cemetery into a nearby ravine. It turns out that no one could do anything about it because he was a very influential person--in fact, he was the Sheriff.

Isn't that sad. Even the more reason why we should be geocoding graves.

[Allsop]

Re: Geo Coding Question

Isn't that sad. Even the more reason why we should be geocoding graves.

Not only sad but criminal, (if not in law certainly in behaviour). Anything to do with graves is sensitive here in the UK and I think for good reason, even if a very old, illegible headstone needs to be moved in a church burial ground, (as sometimes happens when churchyards are being reordered, see attachment of Blidworth, Nottinghamshire Church where my wife was Priest for a number of years, where you can just see old headstones forming a wall) legal permission has to be obtained. I am still, however, not convinced that electronic recording is the best way forward and feel that low-tech here is best. I do not know what the situation is in the US but here many churches who have graves in their grounds already have maps some with individual graves marked, some simply with areas marked and it is possible to get hold of copies of these maps and enter individual graves. The best of course is to have both low and high tech records available! I well remember going through all the burial records of Blidworth since the 16th. Century and making an electronic record of them, it took me a long time but was worth it. The original registers are now in the County Archives and they have an electronic record in the Parish which when we were still there we sold copies of on CD's.
How's the Magic Maps going? Any good?

[B Jansen]

Re: Geo Coding Question

I really love the geo coding feature (thanks!!!), but I'm still getting up to speed with it. For many places, it seems to find at least the town, etc., ok. For more specific places not found via the integrated web searching, I'll have to work on it.

I too list places as they were historically at the time of the event (there was no "Germany" when my ancestors left, eg) which makes it a bit frustrating but entirely understandable. So I found the locations I want to enter but can't correctly get the geo code right. Yes, I am sure that this is a "user error" problem.

For example, here are the two places I'm trying, but failing, to add:

http://www.maplandia.com/germany/niedersachsen/weser-ems/cloppenburg/diekhaus/

and

https://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&q=Tenstedt,+Cloppenburg,+Germany&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ei=ecvXT--xJI2K6QGPr8C4Aw&oi=mode_link&cd=3&ved=0CEkQ_AUoAg

So they list the geo tags, but I can't get them in the Reunion program in the right way. Yes, obviously, I'm not familiar enough with my degrees, etc. Help?

[theKiwi]

Re: Geo Coding Question

You can do this - in Safari web browser, go to the Bookmarks Bar and create a new Bookmark there. Call it something like

LatLong

and for the address put this into it

javascript:void(prompt('',%20gApplication.getMap() .getCenter()));

What this does is let you find a place using Google maps as you linked to, then you click the button for LatLong in your Bookmarks Bar and it gets the latitude and longitude of the centre of the map that is showing and displays it in a dialog box.

Copy it from there - for example

(52.811439, 8.112844)

, and then in the Geo box in Reunion paste it in there, then delete the

( , ) from it

to end up with

52.811439 8.112844

then click on any other place in the places list and Reunion will save it for you.

Roger

PS it would be good perhaps if Reunion would at least recognise as valid input the string as copied directly from Google with the ( , ) in it and strip them out on saving it.