Space for Source Citation Detail

[macRBC]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

Well, this is an old chestnut, a familiar debate in these columns. Kaye, your approach is recommendable to people who for some reason want a minimum number of sources, and who don't want to add media to them. But I can't think of any reason why one would NOT want an image of, say, a marriage registration or a page of a census - except perhaps that there's a little extra work involved. I always add them.

When you grow to over 20,000 people, you get more selective of the images you post. I use Reunion offline, an SQL database (real-time) online. Size/quantity matters. My preference is the SOURce and citation detail of the BMD (which unfortunately Reunion limits). BMD images aren't always added. As to quantity of sources, *every* event I enter is sourced. That's proper way.

[Michael Talibard]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

… the BMD

Please explain what this is: a website? It looks like 'birth, marriage & death' but I don't get such info from anything called 'the BMD.' Am I missing something?

[A Hougie]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

If it relates to England and Wales, it would be a reference to the birth, marriage and death indexes maintained by the General Register Office that are used to find the references for a birth, marriage or death certificate.

I don't bother attaching images for these (unless perhaps one of the online sources such as freebmd.org.uk or ancestry has mistranscribed it), I just quote the reference (in this case as a citation detail for a general source relating to the GRO indexes).

This though is one of the few cases where I do have a general source with no images and multuiple citations with separate details. Generally I prefer a separate detailed source with an attached image - so for example each census record would be a separate source rather than a single source for (say) the 1911 England census.

[macRBC]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

Please explain what this is: a website? It looks like 'birth, marriage & death' but I don't get such info from anything called 'the BMD.' Am I missing something?

Yes, BMD = birth, marriage, death. When you find these on ancestry.ca/.com or familysearch, as A Hougie says, there is reference numbers to find them again so to keep the size of my website smaller, I stopped attaching. Some registrations can be long and with a size cap in Reunion, possibly a problem.

[Michael Talibard]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

One notion about sources that I’ve picked up over the years is that their purpose is to enable somebody else to check one’s work. My first feeling is ‘I should be so lucky!’ but it becomes more likely if the somebody checking is myself a few years down the road revisitng that area when some doubt or question has arisen. In either case, I don’t want the somebody to be put to the trouble of revisiting all the websites I used; and anyway, the links may no longer work, they may not have a subscription, etc. So I attach images. The image shows the original document, and so it’s irrelevant which site I got it from. It’s also irrelevant how that site considers source/citation/detail.

[Robin Helmond]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

One notion about sources that I’ve picked up over the years is that their purpose is to enable somebody else to check one’s work. My first feeling is ‘I should be so lucky!’ but it becomes more likely if the somebody checking is myself a few years down the road revisitng that area when some doubt or question has arisen. In either case, I don’t want the somebody to be put to the trouble of revisiting all the websites I used; and anyway, the links may no longer work, they may not have a subscription, etc. So I attach images. The image shows the original document, and so it’s irrelevant which site I got it from. It’s also irrelevant how that site considers source/citation/detail.

Michael, I've long thought that URL's are not permanent enough to bother using in a source. With buying and selling of internet companies a regular occurrence I think there is little point in stating URL's. One genealogy aggregator may not necessarily have a monopoly on particular data. I am of the belief that if I could find the information surely others can as well. So I prefer to cite the original data source and let the future checker use the provider of the moment. Like you, I keep digital copies of all the original documents for future reference.

[Junior Waldo]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

In this case, the detail is: 3 January 2016, page x, column y.
That's a complete citation.

The text of a source is not part of the citation. It's valuable to have, since it saves having to track the source down, but a citation it's not.

If instead of *citing* your source, you want to *include* the text of your source, you can place a pdf of it in the person's multimedia, or you can change from citing all the editions of The Washington Post as if it were a single source, and include the specifics (date, page, and column) in your citation, and attach the pdf to that source.

One notion about sources that I’ve picked up over the years is that their purpose is to enable somebody else to check one’s work. My first feeling is ‘I should be so lucky!’ but it becomes more likely if the somebody checking is myself a few years down the road revisitng that area when some doubt or question has arisen. In either case, I don’t want the somebody to be put to the trouble of revisiting all the websites I used; and anyway, the links may no longer work, they may not have a subscription, etc. So I attach images. The image shows the original document, and so it’s irrelevant which site I got it from. It’s also irrelevant how that site considers source/citation/detail.

Michael
First of all I have jumped on your suggestion of using an editor to apply a source and citation info right on a document. I will be doing this frequently whether document is used in reunion or not. Thanks for suggestion. Am also starting to use multimedia as suggested (having hard time with this one but will get over it).
I understand urls are anything but permanent but why not include with date accessed. I have gone back a year or two later and used them and they were helpful in making it a little easier to backtrack. Biggest argument I find for not using them is lack of citation detail space in reunion.
Junior

[Robin Helmond]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

Michael
First of all I have jumped on your suggestion of using an editor to apply a source and citation info right on a document. I will be doing this frequently whether document is used in reunion or not. Thanks for suggestion. Am also starting to use multimedia as suggested (having hard time with this one but will get over it).
I understand urls are anything but permanent but why not include with date accessed. I have gone back a year or two later and used them and they were helpful in making it a little easier to backtrack. Biggest argument I find for not using them is lack of citation detail space in reunion.
Junior

I have no trouble with the 255 character limit in the Detail field, but wonder if there is a better way of viewing the full Detail entry. If one has entered, say, 100 characters one has to read the information in the limited window by scrolling across. I have tried all sorts of ways to hopefully open the detail field as a window to no avail. Or have I missed something.

[Michael Talibard]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

Junior - I'm really glad to have been of some use.
Robin - I would offer the same advice as to Junior: use multimedia in place of detail.

[A Hougie]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

One notion about sources that I’ve picked up over the years is that their purpose is to enable somebody else to check one’s work. ... I don’t want the somebody to be put to the trouble of revisiting all the websites I used; and anyway, the links may no longer work, they may not have a subscription, etc. So I attach images. The image shows the original document, and so it’s irrelevant which site I got it from. It’s also irrelevant how that site considers source/citation/detail.
...
Robin - I would offer the same advice as to Junior: use multimedia in place of detail.

This is all fine if the person coming along to look at your work in the future has access to your entire database with all its images (which in my case is several GigaBytes). And I agree with you about the purpose of sources - that and to make more credible the work that has been done.

If (say) however what they have is a Register Report, then a source which (accurately) explains from where the information comes but does not say what the information tells you won't be so helpful. Then that person will need to go back to the source and, as you say, the links may no longer work or they may not have a subscription.

So I am going to quibble slightly with "in place of". Using multimedia is important, but it is also important to judge the appropriate amount of information to include in the source and citation details as well.

[Junior Waldo]

Re: Space for Source Citation Detail

This is all fine if the person coming along to look at your work in the future has access to your entire database with all its images (which in my case is several GigaBytes). And I agree with you about the purpose of sources - that and to make more credible the work that has been done.

If (say) however what they have is a Register Report, then a source which (accurately) explains from where the information comes but does not say what the information tells you won't be so helpful. Then that person will need to go back to the source and, as you say, the links may no longer work or they may not have a subscription.

So I am going to quibble slightly with "in place of". Using multimedia is important, but it is also important to judge the appropriate amount of information to include in the source and citation details as well.

You verbalized my main concern about multimedia very well. Also there are some citations where I like to include considerable detail because source is not readily available and detail of the scource is key to full understanding. It's not just a matter of long URLs. I have, however, become convinced there are more good uses of multi-media than I've been recognizing.
Junior Waldo