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S McCormick
10 September 2009, 01:12 PM
My aunt said on a death certificate that her grandmother was born in "Hoagland, Holland."

Google and Wikipedia suggest that this should be Hoogland, a village in Amersfoort, Utrecht; other researchers at Ancestry.com suggest that this should be Hoogeloon, Bladel, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands.

I really know nothing about the Netherlands

rodrigue
10 September 2009, 02:31 PM
My aunt said on a death certificate that her grandmother was born in "Hoagland, Holland."

Google and Wikipedia suggest that this should be Hoogland, a village in Amersfoort, Utrecht; other researchers at Ancestry.com suggest that this should be Hoogeloon, Bladel, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands.

I really know nothing about the Netherlands — where should I look to find a solution— i.e, identification of the correct place.

A family story says that the house was next door to a canal outside a second floor window — I don't know if this helps any.

Sue

Hi, Sue.

Hoogland would seem to be the right place; looking at the place in Google Earth, there is indeed a canal (or river) running through Hoogland, while there isn't any waterway in Hoogeloon. In Wikipedia, it is said that the river Eem (formerly the Amer) runs through Amersfoort (which now includes Hoogland), and that it is itself fed by the Vallei Canal.

S McCormick
11 September 2009, 12:10 AM
Thank you, Rodrigue. I have been leaning in that direction myself, but the map I saw wasn't clear

Susan Collard
11 September 2009, 06:40 PM
I have relatives in the Netherlands. My grandparents were both born in the Netherlands. Do you need help researching your family there? I think I can help you. Just let me know.

Sharon Lunde
11 September 2009, 06:46 PM
Try this website:
http://genlias.nl
This is a great collection of records from the Netherlands that may be helpful to you.
It can be used in English and is relatively easy to navigate. It is free.
The marriage records are informative, including ages and parents names. They span from the early 1800's to the early 1900's. Some areas also have the birth and death records.
Good luck.

S McCormick
11 September 2009, 10:22 PM
Susan, I may ask for your help in the future. Right now, I am still trying to gather information on my great grandmother in the United States. I have the U.S. information from 1900 til her death in the 1920s but haven't found the census results from her arrival in 1847 through 1880.

I'll keep searching for those records before I branch to overseas research.

Thank you for your offer.

Sue

fritsjansen
14 September 2009, 01:25 PM
hello sue,

did you noticed there is a site about 'historical roots' of Hoogland?
see http://www.hoogland-dorp.nl/links/genealogie.htm

regards...

frits jansen, netherlands

S McCormick
14 September 2009, 07:37 PM
Thank you for the link; I have bookmarked it.

I have no command of Dutch, but I will try the various links (dates will be meaningful and names may be recognizable).

The family name is Michael; head of household seems to have been a merchant. He (or recent ancestors) may have come to the Netherlands from Germany.

Sue

Juan Goudsmit
24 September 2009, 06:01 PM
Sue,

Differing from the other reactions, I think not Hoogland, but Hoogerloon may be the right place to go on with your search.
You will find many people with the surname "Michael" in Hoogerloon, while on first sight it looks like in Hoogland were none.

Hoogerloon is a small village situated south-west of Eindhoven in the province Noord-Brabant. In the 19th century it formed a borough with 2 other small villages: Hapert and Casteren. Nowadays it belongs to the municipality Bladel.

Go to the following website-page (the english-language version search-page of the archives of Eindhoven):
http://eindhoven.digitalestamboom.nl/search.aspx?lang=en

and then for example:
Mark after "Registry Office....": Birth, Mariage, Death
Typ after "Period": 1811, 1880
Leave after "Town/City": All cities
Typ after "Family name: Michael
Leave the rest open and click on the "search" button at the bottom of the page.

And you will find a list of 61 acts of people surnamed "Michael", most registered in Hoogeloon, some in Bladel.
Click on one of the names and you get a page with a little more information and also with a button (bottom right) to go to a scan of the original act (of course written in dutch, so not easy for you to read).

Try the same with the name Michaël (with two dots) and you'll find 10 more.

If you find amongst these records the first name of your aunt's grandmother, I may help you with the translation of the (scanned) original act(s).

best regards from Amsterdam

S McCormick
25 September 2009, 03:36 PM
Thank you so much.

I did find 3 records that match my great grandmother.
In BS Hoogeloon Part 2 Year 1835 Register 13 we find my great grandmother, Petronella.

I also found her sister, who was called "Aunt Cassie" by my mother and her sisters.
In BS Hoogeloon Part 2 Year 1837 Register 3 Gysbertje Michael.

And finally, I found another great aunt.
In BS Hoogelon Part 3 Year 1841 Register 38 Barta Michael.

My mother and aunts were mildly surprised by the two "Berthas" in the family. Looking at these scans, I can see how Dutch to English would create this problem.

I have downloaded these scans. And I would greatly appreciate your help with a translation of these records: I was able to recognize that the father and mother of these girls all had the same name and that those names match the few USA records I have so far found.

Thank you for your help.

Sue

Charles Bourland
25 September 2009, 06:40 PM
Thank you so much.

I did find 3 records that match my great grandmother.
In BS Hoogeloon Part 2 Year 1835 Register 13 we find my great grandmother, Petronella.

I also found her sister, who was called "Aunt Cassie" by my mother and her sisters.
In BS Hoogeloon Part 2 Year 1837 Register 3 Gysbertje Michael.

And finally, I found another great aunt.
In BS Hoogelon Part 3 Year 1841 Register 38 Barta Michael.

My mother and aunts were mildly surprised by the two "Berthas" in the family. Looking at these scans, I can see how Dutch to English would create this problem.

I have downloaded these scans. And I would greatly appreciate your help with a translation of these records: I was able to recognize that the father and mother of these girls all had the same name and that those names match the few USA records I have so far found.

Thank you for your help.

Sue

The excellent newsletter "New Netherland Connections" is referenced at www.genealogyhowto.com.

S McCormick
26 September 2009, 12:35 AM
Thank you for the reference. That looks like an interesting site.

Sue

Juan Goudsmit
30 September 2009, 01:27 PM
Sue,

Glad to hear that you found matching records.
Herewith a translation of the three acts,
rather literal, maybe not always in correct english.

I've also searched a little further and found data
of the parents, grandparents and greatgrandparents
of your three aunts -- consulting the Church-register data
of the period before 1811 (less complete).
You can find these on the same site of the Eindhoven-archives
and also on http://www.bhic.nl/index.php?id=10004

I'm attaching a small register report containing these data.

All villages are situated in the province Noord-Brabant.
You may find the locations thru GoogleMaps.

It's remarkable that the religion of the Michael family
is Protestant Reformed (Nederduits Gereformeerd) while practically
the whole population of the province was and still is Roman Catholic.
After being conquered on Spain by the Northern provinces of the Netherlands,
Noord-Brabant was during the 17th and 18th centuries ruled
by protestant dignitaries "parachuted" from the North.
After the confirmation of the "religious borders" of Europe
by the treaty of Munster (1648),
towards every village and town in Brabant was sent
a protestant Mayor, Secretary, Police chief, Schoolmaster and Clergy man.
The last one got the keys of the old catholic church,
a building much to big for the few protestant prominents and their families.
Public practice of the catholic religion was forbidden.
The people went to "hidden churches" in remote farmhouses,
much to small, not visible from the road.
This situation ended after the French Revolution.

best regards from Amsterdam

S McCormick
30 September 2009, 10:26 PM
Thank you for the wonderful translations!

I am going to turn them into some sort of translation pattern for records in Dutch of this type. I looks as though I will be searching the records of the Netherlands for quite a while. This is almost certainly my family

Juan Goudsmit
02 October 2009, 02:22 PM
but the Lambertus who died in Aalburg may not be the father of Petronella, Gijsbertje, and Barta. The entire family came to the United States in 1847 (according to US census data for Petje {Petronella} and according to death certificate data for several members of the family).


So I understand that your Ancestor Lambertus migrated with his family to the USA.
That made me curious, so I started searching a little further and found some more data,
possibly useful for you.

# the Lambertus who deceased in Aalburg could well be a son of (Grand-uncle) Andreas Michael (b. 1776) and Jenneke Mans. By the way, Jenneke Mans is a sister of Anneke Mans, Petje's (motherside) Grandmother who was married to Gijsbert Verbeek.
In this context I found a website by a Mans-descendant, who might be of help researching
the Verbeek-Mans line:
http://stamboom.mans-manik.com/phpgedview/index.php?ctype=gedcom

# Petje had next to Gijsbertje and Barta a third sister: Anna Michael (born 17.5.1839 Hoogeloon).


I also thank you for the background information on their religion. We knew that they had been Protestant because they were Protestant in the US. There would have been no trouble in remaining Catholic in Illinois and in the St. Louis area where they settled; equally there was no trouble in remaining Protestant. It is interesting though to know that they became Methodist in the US, rather than Presbyterian or Congregational, the two reformed denominations which would have been most accessible to them here in the Midwest.


# Because in the more than predominantly "catholic" province Brabant, there were only a few "protestant" families in every village, a lot of intermarriage between these families was unevitable. And you will find in your Michael familiy-tree the same names again and again; for example Fabri, Mans, Redert, van den Born.... Of this last family I found an extensive website:
http://www.jacquelinejansen.nl/vandenborn_start.html
And surprise, this "van den Born" genealogy also follows your Michael family back in time.
And you will find the parents and grandparents of your forefather Johannes Andreas Michael (who was the oldest one that I mailed you last time). Indeed as you assumed, he comes from Germany, from Thurnhosbach, a small village south-east of Kassel.

[QUOTE]
Just as a side issue

S McCormick
04 October 2009, 09:05 PM
I am sorry I took so long to answer this. My husband and I have returned from an anniversary trip to a science fiction convention (we met each other at the first science fiction convention either of us had ever attended