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Pat Bell
23 March 2007, 03:34 PM
In the last 25-50 years, more and more people (in the US) are being born in hospitals, sometimes in different towns from the parents' place of residence. How do you all handle this bit of info in the Birth information?

For instance, our eldest daughter was born in an Air Force hospital; we were actually living in the near-by town. What's more important? It would seem to me that the pertinent bit is the town, rather than the hospital/hospital's location.

ttl
23 March 2007, 04:12 PM
I would think the place of birth would have more genealogical significance than the residence because that's where the birth certificate will be found. For instance, all our kids were born in a hospital in a different state than we lived in (right across the border). The kids have birth certificates from a different state than our residence, and if I put emphasis on our residence in the database, future researchers would have a hard time finding the documentation. Nothing wrong with using a custom residence field like many do, or including the residence at birth in the notes, though.

gwenboucher
23 March 2007, 07:36 PM
In order to let future researchers know where the parents were living at the time of their child's birth you could use the "Residence" event option.

STEVE
23 March 2007, 09:30 PM
In the last 25-50 years, more and more people (in the US) are being born in hospitals, sometimes in different towns from the parents' place of residence. How do you all handle this bit of info in the Birth information?

For instance, our eldest daughter was born in an Air Force hospital; we were actually living in the near-by town. What's more important? It would seem to me that the pertinent bit is the town, rather than the hospital/hospital's location.

Well, the entry is for "Birth". Not for color of car or anything else. So,

BIRTH| Wed. | Ward M, Bollix AFB Hospital, Slipworthington, NB, USA

is the correct entry.

RESIDENCE| Thu. | 145 B St., Little town, Slipworthington, NB, USA

Is for when the baby makes it's first migration and moves home. It's simple. Just follow the facts AS THEY HAPPEN(ed).

STEVE

Pat Bell
25 March 2007, 02:59 PM
I would think the place of birth would have more genealogical significance than the residence because that's where the birth certificate will be found. For instance, all our kids were born in a hospital in a different state than we lived in (right across the border). The kids have birth certificates from a different state than our residence, and if I put emphasis on our residence in the database, future researchers would have a hard time finding the documentation. Nothing wrong with using a custom residence field like many do, or including the residence at birth in the notes, though.

Good point about the location of the birth certificate, though I would have thought that would be in a state depository, since that's where one goes to get copies of birth certificates.

In point of fact, I had been listing place of birth as the parents' point of residence, with the actual place listed in the Memo.

Pat Bell
25 March 2007, 03:03 PM
Well, the entry is for "Birth". Not for color of car or anything else. So,

BIRTH| Wed. | Ward M, Bollix AFB Hospital, Slipworthington, NB, USA

is the correct entry.

RESIDENCE| Thu. | 145 B St., Little town, Slipworthington, NB, USA

Is for when the baby makes it's first migration and moves home. It's simple. Just follow the facts AS THEY HAPPEN(ed).

STEVE


Makes perfect sense, Steve. I like that reply.

Thanks to you and the others who have given insight into this problem.

It occurs to me. As it stands in Reunion 8.0, there is no further line for birth information, but with death obviously we're interested not only in the date of death (and place), but the place of burial.

Pat Bell
25 March 2007, 03:05 PM
I would think the place of birth would have more genealogical significance than the residence because that's where the birth certificate will be found. For instance, all our kids were born in a hospital in a different state than we lived in (right across the border). The kids have birth certificates from a different state than our residence, and if I put emphasis on our residence in the database, future researchers would have a hard time finding the documentation. Nothing wrong with using a custom residence field like many do, or including the residence at birth in the notes, though.

The almost extreme mobility of Americans these days is enough to cross the eyes of any future family searcher, isn't it?

SGilbert
25 March 2007, 04:05 PM
Pat, in all humility (and sympathy), I'd plan an afternoon to reverse your original listings. :)

Sara
25 March 2007, 05:28 PM
I would think the place of birth would have more genealogical significance than the residence because that's where the birth certificate will be found. For instance, all our kids were born in a hospital in a different state than we lived in (right across the border). The kids have birth certificates from a different state than our residence, and if I put emphasis on our residence in the database, future researchers would have a hard time finding the documentation.

My brother and I were also born in a different state than that in which our parents resided. My mother hated that we were born there. She says that the census taker told her that she could give the parents' residence as the birth state. I'm eager to see the 1940 census records to see if she really did. When my brother was in the Air Force he needed special clearance for something. He had put the residence state as his birth state. The Air Force came after him and he almost didn't get the clearance since he had given false information.

Pat Bell
26 March 2007, 04:25 PM
Pat, in all humility (and sympathy), I'd plan an afternoon to reverse your original listings. :)

Luckily, there actually aren't all that many. Won't take long, and I've already done some of them.

Thanks for the sympathy - I think we all share that wonderful quality for our fellow searchers when they get frustrated.

STEVE
27 March 2007, 04:10 AM
...It occurs to me. As it stands in Reunion 8.0, there is no further line for birth information, but with death obviously we're interested not only in the date of death (and place), but the place of burial.

Of course, with Reunion, you can add whatever events or facts seem necessary. I have created one called "Birth Cert." Reason? I was born in a taxi cab, and my birth is so listed. The cab driver not being properly equipped for such an event, the hospital wrote up the birth certificate, under their name --- with the cab driver listed in the "Attending" box.

Other birth information is probably best entered into the notes, and this is probably how I should have handled my taxicab birth event.

STEVE

Bill Williams
28 March 2007, 07:37 PM
I would think the place of birth would have more genealogical significance than the residence because that's where the birth certificate will be found.

I haven't had to do any searches like that, but I'd bet that to get a copy of a birth certificate you'd need to contact the state agency that ultimately maintains listings of births and deaths -- vital records, vital statistics, or whatever.The hospitals wouldn't maintain these records.

dfilpus
28 March 2007, 08:59 PM
I haven't had to do any searches like that, but I'd bet that to get a copy of a birth certificate you'd need to contact the state agency that ultimately maintains listings of births and deaths -- vital records, vital statistics, or whatever.The hospitals wouldn't maintain these records.

It may also be the county that holds the birth certificates, not the state. The point to this thread is that the birth certificate is stored in the county or state of the hospital, not in the county or state of residence. So, notating the location of the hospital as the location of birth may make it easier to find the birth certificate than notating the location of the parent's residence as the place of birth.

John M. Leggett
29 March 2007, 08:24 PM
It may also be the county that holds the birth certificates, not the state. The point to this thread is that the birth certificate is stored in the county or state of the hospital, not in the county or state of residence. So, notating the location of the hospital as the location of birth may make it easier to find the birth certificate than notating the location of the parent's residence as the place of birth.

We're getting closer to the answer to the question being dealt with in this thread. As in so many things sometimes discussed endlessly, the answer is that the place of birth is simply the place of birth.

Now, if one wishes to add to that, fine, and sometimes a further explanation is not only proper but necessary.

In my case, the place of birth WAS the residence of my parents as I was born at home. There was no hospital involved. The residence was in King County, Washington State and since in Washington, birth records were kept in the County, that is where I got my birth certificate.

I find that most of the persons in my family file born before 1900 were also not born in a hospital. (I'm not quite that old)

There is really no standard place where birth records are filed in the US or other countries so it may only add to the confusion to insert something other than the actual place of birth in the box for Place of Birth.

It is my understanding that some States are in the process of accumulating legal records at the State level as they computerize everything.

STEVE
30 March 2007, 03:07 AM
I haven't had to do any searches like that, but I'd bet that to get a copy of a birth certificate you'd need to contact the state agency that ultimately maintains listings of births and deaths -- vital records, vital statistics, or whatever. The hospitals wouldn't maintain these records.

You just lost the bet Bill! ;-) We're talking a military hospital here. And, Naval hospitals/dispensaries at least, they do keep their own records. I think you'll find that, if you ask politely, some/many/a few/? civilian hospitals do keep records, they just discourage researchers since they're not really equipped to deal, legally or physically, with researchers.

The military hospitals I'm familiar with all 1) keep a copy of all births, deaths, hospitalizations, immunizations, etc. 2) comply with all local laws, in whatever country they may be (that we have friendly relations with), 3) File copies of all their records with the National Naval Medical Records Center, Bethesda. Marine Corps records are a part of the Naval records system. I imagine that the Army and Air Force have comparable programs. Just exactly how willing they are to have genealogists traipsing through their records I can't imagine, but a well worded SF-180 should get you results.

STEVE

Bill Williams
31 March 2007, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Bill Williams
I haven't had to do any searches like that, but I'd bet that to get a copy of a birth certificate you'd need to contact the state agency that ultimately maintains listings of births and deaths -- vital records, vital statistics, or whatever. The hospitals wouldn't maintain these records.

You just lost the bet Bill! ;-) We're talking a military hospital here. And, Naval hospitals/dispensaries at least, they do keep their own records. I think you'll find that, if you ask politely, some/many/a few/? civilian hospitals do keep records, they just discourage researchers since they're not really equipped to deal, legally or physically, with researchers.

I stand corrected -- at least w/regard to military hospitals.(g) I know when I went to get =my= birth certificate (b. 1934 in rural western KY) in '78 I wound up corresponding with the Kentucky Department For Human Resources, Registrar of Vital Statistics (which provided me with an embossed plastic card). When I needed copies of death certificates for my parents (to transfer ownership of real estate, prior to sale), in rural southwest Georgia I was initially referred to the hospital records department, which sent me to the County Courthouse.

Nowadays a Google search for "birth/death+certificates+state" should simplify all this.

jmsample
09 April 2007, 11:23 PM
Any event should recorded where it actually took place so that future researchers are not looking in the wrong place. I use the View features to the limit and have my second View as Birth/Baptism and have all events and notes here regarding the birth and baptism or similar naming ritual recorded here. I have a field called Birth Notes in which I would record the name of hospital, at home, in a taxi cab for that matter (although none of those so far - but something close). Here I would indicate any unusual circumstances. My grandmother was visiting relatives two provinces away from her home a couple of weeks before her due date and had just boarded a train to return to Ontario. She went into labour early and the train had to be stopped a few kilometres from the station and backed into town. My father was born in Melville, Sask. although his residence - and the INTENDED place of birth - was in northwestern Ontario. These circumstances I recorded in the Birth Notes field.

As far as I have experienced, the registration of births, deaths and marriages is a local government responsibility be it county, province, state, etc. If an event - say birth - occured in another jurisdiction simply note that by something like: "John Doe was born in Main Hospital, Someplace, Anyprovincestate a short distance from the family residence in Anotherplace, Nextprovincestate"

To-day many people die at places distant from their usual residences such a special care facilities. Someone who lived in Town A but died in Town B would very llkely be buried in Town A and have obituaries of the newspaper of Town A. Looking for them in Town B would lead to a great deal of frustraion for future researchers.

How many people to-day get married in some romantic place - Las Vegas, the Florida Keys, Cancun, the Greek Isles, etc., etc. but have no actual connection to those places.

Using the View feature or the Memo field next to each event field is the place to record these circumstances.

James Sample
Toronto, Ontario

Blaise A. Darveaux
10 April 2007, 10:31 PM
My grandmother was visiting relatives two provinces away from her home a couple of weeks before her due date and had just boarded a train to return to Ontario. She went into labour early and the train had to be stopped a few kilometres from the station and backed into town. My father was born in Melville, Sask. although his residence - and the INTENDED place of birth - was in northwestern Ontario.

Not to pry into your personal data, but to have your grandmother give birth recently is a bit unusual. You have peaked my curiosity. It is not unheard of to have an aunt or uncle younger then oneself, but usually the age difference is only a few years. If you are 12, and your mother or father was 16 when they had you, and your grandmother was 16 when she had your parent, that would mean your grandmother is giving birth at 44. But I would guess that she is much older then that?

It probably struck me odd since all my grandparents were in their 60s and 70s when I came into being. I am 48, yet I have a great-grandfather who was born way back in 1808 (coming up on 200 years). I come from a line of old fathers.

--Blaise A. Darveaux

Ronald N. Gowe
11 April 2007, 07:11 PM
It's not that weird, Blaise. My present wife is 25 years younger than me. My oldest daughter is 2 1/2 years older than she; my son 1 1/2 years younger. My oldest grandson is 12 years younger than his grandmother.

Ron

jmsample
11 April 2007, 07:43 PM
Not to pry into your personal data, but to have your grandmother give birth recently is a bit unusual. You have peaked my curiosity. It is not unheard of to have an aunt or uncle younger then oneself, but usually the age difference is only a few years. If you are 12, and your mother or father was 16 when they had you, and your grandmother was 16 when she had your parent, that would mean your grandmother is giving birth at 44. But I would guess that she is much older then that?

It probably struck me odd since all my grandparents were in their 60s and 70s when I came into being. I am 48, yet I have a great-grandfather who was born way back in 1808 (coming up on 200 years). I come from a line of old fathers.

--Blaise A. Darveaux


I reread and reread my original message for typos or grammatical errors and still cannot figure out what I wrote to indicate that this event happened recently. The event, in fact, happened in 1927. Please enlighten me as to how you intepreted this to have been a recent event. I am curious. No need to belabour the ReunionTalk people with this; if you like reply to me at my email address directly - jmsample@mac.com

-- James Sample.

Blaise A. Darveaux
11 April 2007, 10:19 PM
I reread and reread my original message for typos or grammatical errors and still cannot figure out what I wrote to indicate that this event happened recently. The event, in fact, happened in 1927. Please enlighten me as to how you intepreted this to have been a recent event. I am curious. No need to belabour the ReunionTalk people with this; if you like reply to me at my email address directly - jmsample@mac.com

-- James Sample.

Your right!!! For some reason I misread (several times, I might add) that your grandmother traveled "... away from her home a couple of weeks..." as "...away from her home a couple of weeks AGO..." Sorry about that.

I thought it best to confess my error to all of ReunionTalk.

--Blaise A. Darveaux

Blaise A. Darveaux
11 April 2007, 10:29 PM
It's not that weird, Blaise. My present wife is 25 years younger than me. My oldest daughter is 2 1/2 years older than she; my son 1 1/2 years younger. My oldest grandson is 12 years younger than his grandmother.

Ron

Thanks Ron.

That means that if your son married you wife's mother (I don't know if either of them are available :-) you could have a real life "I am my own Grandpa" scenerio.!!! Spectacular.

--Blaise A. Darveaux