Data in Burial Event

[Nancy G Chesnutt]

I have been entering the place of burial, then the town, county and state but there are times I would like to look up burial sites just by the town. Is there a way to do this or does Reunion only sort by the cemetery if that is the first item listed. I have thought about putting the cemetery name in the memo field. Any suggestions about this?

[SGilbert]

Keep it the way you have it. Do a "find", then "find anything", and enter the town and search only burial place.

[Myron Timmons]

I have been entering the place of burial, then the town, county and state but there are times I would like to look up burial sites just by the town. Is there a way to do this or does Reunion only sort by the cemetery if that is the first item listed. I have thought about putting the cemetery name in the memo field. Any suggestions about this?

For my two cents worth:
In the place field I only put (City, County, State) and then in the memo field I put the Cemetery info. As such; Miles City, Custer, MT.
That is where my dad is buried. Then in the memo field; Custer County Cem., 6 th st. Northeast side of road.
Doing it this way keeps the place names clean and short, and is easily reviewed in the Place names list when I do an audit on them. One of the worst nightmares I have with other peoples work is the constant use of unrecognized abbrevations and never keeping a uniform standard way of entry in their databases. When I find a city name I always look up the county and list it. If you start throwing in all kinds of Cemetery names it seems to me to just clobber up everything. I prefer a more neat and tidy way of doing it, if possible. If I don't know the City but know the county and state then I do it thus; " , Custer, MT". I also always abbreviate the name Cemetery "Cem.", It seems some people abbreviate it at times however they seem to remember it. I just finished doing a global change to Cemetery where the author abbreviated Cemetery 5 different way's. And this in a 17,000 person gedcom.
So bottom line is what or however you do it, do it consitantly.
Good luck and happy reunion 8, looking forward to rev 9.
Myron

[kyuck]

In the place field I only put (City, County, State) and then in the memo field I put the Cemetery info. As such; Miles City, Custer, MT.
I do the same as you do Myron. All the other details such as cemetery name, address, plot number, etc. go in the Memo Field. As you said, it keeps the place names clean, concise and consistent. It also makes the use of Speed Names... much more efficient.

[theKiwi]

I put the name of the cemetery in the place field - it's only one more entity of data - but it then allows you to easily find all the people who are buried in a particular cemetery.

And the USGS database of places treats cemeteries at the same level as populated places - ie they're in a county, so the number of entities would be the same in say

Grand Rapids, Kent Co., Michigan, USA

and

Mount Calvary Cemetery, Kent Co., Michigan, USA

and since Mount Calvary Cemetery is one of many cemeteries within Grand Rapids it's much more specific.

List ------> Places will show you who is buried at that particular cemetery.
plink plink plink

Roger

[Howard Fink]

I also keep anything more detailed that the city in the Memo field. I do have one more comment about place names, however. I always spell out the state name in full. Maybe it's because I was born in Conn, but later lived in CT... or maybe because I now live in MA and some people don't know if that is Maine, Maryland or Massachusetts. Anything you can do in your data to avoid confusion seems like the way to go. Abbreviations can change, but the full name will always be clear (although not always correct - place names can change). I did not start out doing this, but I decided to make the switch a few years ago. It was painful at the time, but I'm glad I did it. (Keep in mind that you don't want to do a global replace on something like AL.)

[Bob Goode]

I also keep anything more detailed that the city in the Memo field. I do have one more comment about place names, however. I always spell out the state name in full. Maybe it's because I was born in Conn, but later lived in CT... or maybe because I now live in MA and some people don't know if that is Maine, Maryland or Massachusetts. Anything you can do in your data to avoid confusion seems like the way to go. Abbreviations can change, but the full name will always be clear (although not always correct - place names can change). I did not start out doing this, but I decided to make the switch a few years ago. It was painful at the time, but I'm glad I did it. (Keep in mind that you don't want to do a global replace on something like AL.)

I agree wholeheartedly with Howard on the complete spelling of place names. The little extra effort is well worth the results with no ambiguities or doubts on the part of the reader.

Bob

[SGilbert]

(Keep in mind that you don't want to do a global replace on something like AL.)

How do you think I felt when I did all the states? I live in Indiana---ALL the "in" 's became Indiana!!!

[marnen]

I absolutely would put the name of the cemetery in the Place field (I do the same for hospital births). I use 2-letter postal abbreviations for U.S. states and Canadian provinces (and "Co." for county when necessary), but I spell out everything else. I also include the county in all U.S. place names, but omit the country if it's U.S.

Other countries, such as Australia, Brazil, and Switzerland also have standard 2- or 3-letter state and canton abbreviations. If I ever need to enter places in any such country, I will probably, abbreviate states. Anywhere else (such as Mexico), I think I'd spell out the names in full.

Examples of my format:
Kensico Cemetery, Valhalla, Westchester, NY (institution, city, county, state)
Valhalla, Westchester, NY (city only)
Westchester Co., NY (city not known)
NY (county and city not known)

Toronto, York, ON, Canada (similar, but with non-U.S. country)
Zürich, ZH, Switzerland (likewise; ZH is standard abbreviation for Zürich canton)

Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico (state spelled out -- does Mexico use counties?)

Vaduz, Liechtenstein (no administrative subdivisions between city and country)

Ack! I think I lost the thread topic here.

[STEVE]

I put the name of the cemetery in the place field - it's only one more entity of data - but it then allows you to easily find all the people who are buried in a particular cemetery.

And the USGS database of places treats cemeteries at the same level as populated places - ie they're in a county, so the number of entities would be the same in say

Grand Rapids, Kent Co., Michigan, USA

and

Mount Calvary Cemetery, Kent Co., Michigan, USA

and since Mount Calvary Cemetery is one of many cemeteries within Grand Rapids it's much more specific.

List ------> Places will show you who is buried at that particular cemetery.
plink plink plink

Roger

Preferring to keep the maximum information possible, I use a five-place (four-comma) naming convention --- that ALWAYS uses all four commas. Thus, the same information is always found in the same column: Specific place (name and/or address), town/city, county/parish/burrough, state/province, country. I also keep a copy of the USPS zip code directory (~$20) around and use its recommended abbreviations.

STEVE

[Howard Fink]

... I use 2-letter postal abbreviations for U.S. states and Canadian provinces ...One of my points was that at one time (in my not so long lifetime) the "official" abbreviation for Connecticut was "Conn" but that it is now "CT". Because these can change, the only way to make sure future readers will understand everything is to avoid any contemporary abbreviations.

How many of you aren't sure what state MA is? How about MS? If you use abbreviations like these I think it is a good bet that somebody, sometime will assume the wrong place...

[marnen]

These 2-letter abbreviations are standardized, and are likely to remain so -- they've been around for several decades already. I see no reason to assume that they'll go away; if anything, they are becoming more widely used, not less.

I suspect almost everyone on this board knows what states MA and MS refer to.

[Bob Goode]

These 2-letter abbreviations are standardized, and are likely to remain so -- they've been around for several decades already. I see no reason to assume that they'll go away; if anything, they are becoming more widely used, not less.

I suspect almost everyone on this board knows what states MA and MS refer to.

Marnen,

The vast majority of the time I agree with your comments but I must respectfully disagree with the idea of using abbreviations. The Chicago Manual of Style states, " In running text, the names of states, territories and possessions of the United States should always be spelled out when standing alone and preferably when following the name of a city."

I understand the that Reunion is a database and not "running text" but many of us use Reunion to generate reports or write family histories. To go back and change all the abbreviations in Reunion generated reports would be tedious and unnecessary if the place names are entered completely the first time. The "speed names" function in Reunion alleviates the need to type the complete name after the first time entry.

The Chicago Manual of Style (my edition is 2003) also states that "many writers and editors, however, prefer the older form..." The postal office abbreviations are all caps and should be used only in mailing addresses and not writing a paper. CT is also Conn. according to the manual. Why not avoid misunderstanding by writing out the complete place name.

I wonder how many individuals when asked for the abbreviation of Alaska will respond with Al instead of Ak. Marnen is correct that the abbreviations have been around for several decades (1963) and one would hope that individuals correctly know all the state abbreviations but I would not bet on it. And I am a betting man.:-)

Bob

[marnen]

The Chicago Manual of Style states, " In running text, the names of states, territories and possessions of the United States should always be spelled out when standing alone and preferably when following the name of a city."
Absolutely. I follow that convention, except in certain styles of informal writing.
I understand the that Reunion is a database and not "running text"
And so different style rules apply. I don't see why you quoted a style rule that's absolutely irrelevant to the current context.
but many of us use Reunion to generate reports or write family histories.
State abbreviations are perfectly appropriate in a report. Reports are not so much running text as they are efficient presentations of large amounts of essentially tabular data. Family histories are another matter if they are written in narrative form. There, I agree that state names should be spelled out.
To go back and change all the abbreviations in Reunion generated reports would be tedious and unnecessary if the place names are entered completely the first time.
It is indeed unnecessary, because the abbreviations are appropriate in reports, as I outlined above.
The Chicago Manual of Style (my edition is 2003) also states that "many writers and editors, however, prefer the older form..."
They are a dying breed, and probably rightly so.
The postal office abbreviations are all caps and should be used only in mailing addresses and not writing a paper.
A database -- or a family history report -- is not a paper any more than it is a mailing address. I wouldn't use postal abbreviations in an academic paper (except in certain tabular contexts), but I do not think that a database should be held to the same style rules as academic writing.
CT is also Conn. according to the manual.
Not in my database it isn't. :)
I wonder how many individuals when asked for the abbreviation of Alaska will respond with Al instead of Ak.
Not many, I think, but who cares? I wonder how many individuals wouldn't know what a 2nd cousin once removed is. It doesn't matter. We're writing for people of whom a certain level of specialized knowledge can be assumed.

Note that I'm not saying you shouldn't spell state names out if you want to (although I think it looks awkward in this context); rather, I'm trying to say that the use of a narrowly limited set of abbreviations is not incorrect, and in some cases may be the preferable option.

[MabryBenson]

I have always been offended by the 2 letter postal code abbreviations and have refused to learn or use them. There are too many M & A states so the abbreviations are ambiguous. Besides the 2 letter capitals scattered throughout look funny. The caps are to draw the eye, and you rarely need that for a state.

All parts of the place name should be spelled out.

[genealogist.lily]

Marnen,

Why not avoid misunderstanding by writing out the complete place name.

Bob

My Family History Report - which became a hardcover book, covers over 1,000 pages. Writing out the complete place name would fill the pages with long words that constitute tedious duplication of information. Short forms are accepted in todays busy world. Let's do it! I believe in giving the reader some credit for intelligence.

For me the shorter the better. To each his own though - that's the Canadian way!
Lily in Canada.

[Peter Cook]

Much has been made of the standard four item, three comma approach to place names (for burials or any other event); but no one has mentioned the alternative sorting of Place names available via the "Reverse Place Name Sort' tick box when one uses List Places.

This operates on the right most comma, so while my place names follow the four standard item format, I only use one comma - after the first item. That way with a quick click in the tick box I can see all the people in the same place in close proximity in the place index.

For the odd occasion where a state/county or country order is needed (usually after a large import with non standard addresses into one of my research files), a careful Find Replace allows me to add the required comma, and then to remove it when the task is done.

This sort of leads into the subject of US State abbreviations ...
I suspect almost everyone on this board knows what states MA and MS refer to.
Careful, this is implying that ReunionTalk is a US centric list, which I doubt.

For mine, I know which states CA and CO refer to, as I have tenuous family connections to those states, but as to which M abbreviation goes with which of the ? eight ? M states :-(

Oh, and I also know which state WA refers to - due to a surprisingly high number of misdirected inter-continental mail items - and that's why I don't use WA in my signature (but do use it in Reunion - as WA Aus) ...

[kyuck]

Careful, this is implying that ReunionTalk is a US centric list, which I doubt.
For mine, I know which states CA and CO refer to, ...
Of course, here in Canada, CA would refer to CAnada.

[STEVE]

(Keep in mind that you don't want to do a global replace on something like AL.)

Not really. I ALWAYS use the format: <space>AL<comma>.

i.e.:

2324 B Street, Chaniey, Urpsula, AL, USA.

...he was born in Chaniey, AL, a town...

Global replace then becomes //ignore case (off) //whole word (on) // change // <space>AL<comma>//to//<space>Alaska<comma>
(just kidding!!!)

"born in ALABAMA" isn't a problem because there is no comma following the "L". Likewise, "GENERAL", is no problem because there is no space before the "A". Case and whole word checking eliminate any other possible problems as far as I know.

In textual material I may use AL, or Alabama, depending on appropriateness. He was born in AL, simply doesn't look or read right.

In databasing work, consistency is everything.

STEVE

[Ronald N. Gowe]

Careful, this is implying that ReunionTalk is a US centric list, which I doubt.

For mine, I know which states CA and CO refer to, as I have tenuous family connections to those states, but as to which M abbreviation goes with which of the ? eight ? M states :-(

Oh, and I also know which state WA refers to - due to a surprisingly high number of misdirected inter-continental mail items - and that's why I don't use WA in my signature (but do use it in Reunion - as WA Aus) ...http://www.usps.com/ncsc/lookups/abbreviations.html#top has answered my concerns regarding posted two letter usage.

There is only once that I've been caught by using the two letter abbreviation and that was in a reply to WA for Western Australia, when I took it to be Washington, USA.

[marnen]

Careful, this is implying that ReunionTalk is a US centric list, which I doubt.
Fair enough. Anyone interested in US genealogy will probably know.

[marnen]

Of course, here in Canada, CA would refer to CAnada.
This is why I don't abbreviate countries. That way CA can only be California, not Canada.

[marnen]

My Family History Report - which became a hardcover book, covers over 1,000 pages. Writing out the complete place name would fill the pages with long words that constitute tedious duplication of information.
My point exactly.

[STEVE]

My Family History Report - which became a hardcover book, covers over 1,000 pages. Writing out the complete place name would fill the pages with long words that constitute tedious duplication of information. Short forms are accepted in todays busy world. Let's do it! I believe in giving the reader some credit for intelligence.

For me the shorter the better. To each his own though - that's the Canadian way!
Lily in Canada.

Congratulations on your publication Lilly!

Street instead of St.? California instead of CA? Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anything that reduces the size of my databases/research files/publications is something I want to know about, and use. Let's not get into the saved time, energy and stress/damage from the shorter input. Also, I have a forward that goes into all my published material that describes my working method's, the rules i try to follow and tables of abbreviations and such. No one need wonder what I was trying to do, it's all right there for them to read. If they're too ignorant to deal with that, then I don't want them messing with my material anyway.

STEVE

[genealogist.lily]

Congratulations on your publication Lily!

Street instead of St.? California instead of CA? Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anything that reduces the size of my databases/research files/publications is something I want to know about, and use. Let's not get into the saved time, energy and stress/damage from the shorter input. Also, I have a forward that goes into all my published material that describes my working method's, the rules i try to follow and tables of abbreviations and such. No one need wonder what I was trying to do, it's all right there for them to read. If they're too ignorant to deal with that, then I don't want them messing with my material anyway.

STEVE

Thank you Steve! I could never have completed the project without Reunion, the internet and the world wide web. Genealogy and computers - are truly "made for each other."
I understand those who want to make every single detail totally clear - but like you, I feel that if people are too lazy to read the preface and therefore can't understand the work - then they should not be reading it!
Lily